Riches in the Niches for Realtors: Master Divorce Listings

Welcome to the Empowered Agent Podcast. In today's episode, host Tristan Campanella is joined by Jennifer Chaney, a seasoned digital marketer and realtor with a unique expertise in divorce listings. With over 20 years in real estate, Jennifer brings valuable insights into this specialized niche.

The episode delves into the importance of focusing on specific niches in real estate, with a particular emphasis on divorce listings. Jennifer discusses the complexities and emotional sensitivities involved in handling real estate transactions during a divorce.

Advice for Realtors:
Jennifer offers practical tips for realtors interested in specializing in certain areas. She highlights the need for empathy, tailored strategies, and the importance of building strong, authentic relationships with clients, especially in delicate situations such as divorce.

Overcoming Challenges:
Jennifer candidly discusses the challenges faced as an entrepreneur and shares her personal strategies for overcoming doubts and boundaries. She emphasizes resilience and the importance of defining personal success beyond mere transaction numbers.

Upcoming Masterclass: JOIN https://www.divorcenichemastery.com/
Announcing her upcoming masterclass, Jennifer provides a sneak peek into what it will cover, focusing on the divorce niche in real estate. The masterclass is aimed at offering valuable strategies and insights for realtors interested in this area.

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Chapters

• 4:19 Doing What others haven't
• 5:41 Looking for opportunities in the market
• 6:36 How she got into Divorce Listings
• 10:25 Seeing Your Pipeline
• 15:36 Become a Partner by Listening
• 20:55 Jennifer's Big Goals

Transcript

Also think getting older, my hair is getting thinner,

which is not my favorite moment in my life.

That actually helps me.

Mine's getting thinner, too.

And now I don't have this big

tree top, which is actually really nice.

So for me, it's actually a good thing.

But I totally hear you. Yeah.

Okay, my dear.

Well, we're going to get started, so I'm going to

do your intro, the bio here, and then we'll just

kind of dive in, and it just kind of flows.

And I'm so excited that you're here.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Okay.

Let me move that thing.

Okay, cool. All right.

A gardener is outside.

I'm hoping that he doesn't.

Oh, I feel like, people, it's very

authentic when the gardener is outside. Right.

I think we're all working from home. We're all moms.

We're all doing a million things, and we're all just

trying to make it work the best we can. And that's just.

That's, I think, part of life at this, so.

All right, guys.

Welcome back to the empowered agent podcast.

My name is Tristan Campanella.

I am your host for mindset, strategy, and

success tips for women in real estate today.

I am so excited to have Jennifer Cheney on.

She is somebody I have worked with in the past.

She is a great digital marketer, and she is

really niching down into the divorce listing category.

And I think this is such a beneficial

thing to do in your real estate business

is to start to think about your niches.

So I really wanted to have Jennifer on for that.

She's been a realtor for over 20 years.

She's traveled the world as a radio city

rocket, which I did not know, and I'm

definitely going to ask about that.

She's gone through her own personal divorce, and she

had to rebuild her life from the inside and

out, which has led her to have a passion

for helping people going through this same situation.

Welcome to the show, Jennifer.

It's nice to have you. Thank you.

I'm glad to be here. Yeah.

So that's amazing.

So, first of all, we just have

to ask about the radio City rocket.

Like, I didn't even know about that.

I grew up in New York when I was a kid.

I saw the rockets when I was, like, six.

So to think that you were

a rocket is absolutely amazing.

Well, thank you.

I grew up on the east coast, too.

It's not necessarily something that I come right out and tell

people, hey, I used to kick my leg for a living,

but it was definitely a great part of my life.

Traveled the world with it was on Radio City

or was dancing at Radio City Music hall.

And this time of year especially, it

always makes me think about it. That's for sure. Yeah.

Because that's when I saw them.

I think it is a great thing to talk about

because you have to have a ton of discipline, and

you have to have a lot of consistent practice.

And I think that's something that

really translates into real estate.

And it's also discipline and consistent action

are two things a lot of real

estate agents really struggle with, myself included.

Right.

So having that discipline from being a dancer,

from performing, and having to be on stage,

whether you felt good or not, I'm sure,

probably translates over into real estate, right?

Yeah, it really does.

And I didn't go to college.

That was my college traveling the world.

And so when I kind of thought about

a career after, it was a natural fit.

I'm personable. I like people.

But more important than that, when you kind

of think about the fabric of your life,

you don't really know how it all transpires.

And now looking back, I'm like, wow.

Resiliency was probably the biggest thing that

I learned from being a dancer.

Determination and resiliency.

But I can't tell you how many

auditions I went to didn't get.

Had to pick myself back up and keep on going.

So that rejection and that resiliency, 1000% has led

me or served me well in real estate. Yeah.

Because, I mean, as a real estate agent, right.

We go up into listing appointments. We don't get it.

We call people.

We have to constantly be

very resilient in this business.

And I think, especially this last year, a

lot of agents are not doing as well

as they were or they're questioning things.

I think coming back as we look into our next years

in real estate and saying, how do I become more resilient?

How do I have more determination?

So let's segue into that.

So you've done residential real estate

sales for over 20 years. That's amazing.

You are here in San Diego

with me, and that's wonderful.

You had your own brokerage for a minute with

a partner, and now you're on your own. Yes.

Okay, great.

In the past, because we're going to get into your

niche and that you're leading a master class in this.

And I really definitely want people to be able to

find you and get involved in that master class.

You might see meat in there as well.

I think niching down is incredible.

Before you started, niching down.

Tell me a little bit about your real estate journey.

Yeah, so I've always been the relationship builder

and the people side of the business.

So even when I had partners, I

actually started my career in Bakersfield, California.

So not here in San Diego.

I was there for ten years and then been in

this market for a little over ten years now.

And with my business partner there,

we specialized in new construction.

And so I did 100 deals a year.

Obviously, our average price range was very different

in Bakersfield, California, but we found that niche

in small builders that didn't have a large

development process and had realtors on staff, so

they needed to outsource that.

And so we represented around seven to ten different small

custom home builders, and that was our niche then.

And I've always kind of looked for what

people aren't doing and the underserved kind of

category for anything that I've done.

And I'm also passion driven.

So at that point, when I first

started, I was really passionate about green

living and eco friendly efficiency.

So I went to all these certifications for

sustainability, and so I learned the lead program

and worked with green efficiency sustainable type homes.

So that was kind of my niche.

And when I get into something again,

it has to be passion driven.

And then I go deep in that. Okay?

That's kind of how I started.

And then when I moved down here to San Diego,

I just really wanted to kind of reinvent myself.

And so I've really been just looking

for opportunities and how I could build

my business out with different niches. Niches. Niche.

I say niche.

I think we know both of that from that.

So the underlying thing I did hear you

say is that it is very relationship building

and you are really good at that.

You build those relationships with people and then from

that broader category, because like a lot of agents,

we can get so spread thin, right?

We're like, okay, should we go after buyers, sellers?

And then it gets really broad and we don't

really have anything that we are passionate about because

we're either spread too thin or we are just

kind of all over the place.

And so I think this niching down thing.

So you've already been doing this.

Was there like an aha.

Moment for you that you were like,

I really need to niche down more?

Well, mine was again, driven

by circumstance and passion.

So I went through my own divorce quite

a few years ago, and that really prompted

me to understand the journey of that process

and really understand that it's a different transaction.

And I don't know if most realtors understand that, yes,

the nature of the deal may be the same in

certain nuances, but when you get into this industry or

this particular niche, I'm now going through a certification that

I'll be the only agent certified by the courts.

And people don't realize that, well, there's five

of us here in San Diego, but I'll

be the one for north county.

And there's a whole bunch of legs and tentacles

that kind of come along with divorce transactions.

A lot of it's the emotional side.

We're already dealing with complex communication sometimes, but

when you're dealing with a battle in divorce,

you really have to be skilled and empathetic

on how to handle that transaction.

And it's very different if I have a restraining

order from one person or the other or two

people can't communicate in the same room.

It becomes a very complex thing.

And the one thing about a niche,

I will say, and I did this.

Now that we're talking through it, I

did this with the new construction, too.

I've always been the type of person that looked at,

how can I get the most from the least amount?

And I don't mean this in a bad way of work. Right.

That's not a bad way at all.

I think that's a leveraging.

I think that's really, as an entrepreneur in any field,

that is how we have to look at it. Right.

So with a builder, I knew that I

was going to get multiple transactions from one

builder versus going after the end user.

The same thing in the divorce niche category, the

end user is the person going through the divorce.

But I'm going to get all those leads coming from

the mediators, the attorneys, the divorce coaches, and I'm going

to get multiple from one person versus going.

So that's kind of in every category

that I've really built my business in.

That's what I'm looking for is how I can

maximize my time, my leverage, and then create the

systems around it that need to and allow me

to still live the life I want to live,

which is important to me, especially after rebuilding.

And now, as you can see in my background,

if you can't, I have a new family, and

I'm remarried, and that is my number one priority.

Yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome.

As somebody who's gone through divorce and is remarried with

a new family as well, I didn't sell my house.

That's a whole other thing.

But I don't think there was

any particular help for that niche. Right.

It wasn't even something that we thought about.

And then when you're talking about getting the

most from the least amount, are you seeing

in this particular niche where you're selling the

house and then maybe you're helping either the

wife or the husband exes buy again?

Does that happen? Yeah.

So not only am I getting multiple transactions from

one attorney or one mediator, but I'm also getting

multiple transactions from the end user, the client.

And so, yes, a lot of times

they have investment properties plus their primary.

So I'm selling investment property and a primary

and then helping them on the buy side.

So there is multiple transactions and some of it isn't.

This took me some time.

I'm just now starting to really see the uptick

in everything that I've been building this year.

I just started this in January of 2023 is when

I really kind of went deep in this niche.

And this summer is when it started to kind of uptick.

And now I'm, like, swamped and I can see my pipeline.

It's very hard for realtors to see their pipeline.

Yes, we all know the numbers.

You have to make x amount of calls,

have x amount of people in your database

in order to equal x amount of leads.

But to be honest with you,

that was really difficult for me.

I'm not a cold caller

because I'm a relationship builder.

I'm like, what am I going to do?

Put all my sphere of influence and just say, okay, for

my 100 people that I play tennis with and I golf

with and I go have fun with, and how do I

know what's going to pop out on a real estate deal?

It was very hard for me to grasp.

And having hundreds of people in my database

that are going through this process, I can

actually see, okay, they just started their journey.

Six months from now, they need to sell their house.

Now they're going to buy.

They've actually gone through the lending process to know what

their equity can get them on the back end.

Like, they are in my database and I'm already built

out for 2024, which is insane to me and I've

never been able to do that and to track. Yeah.

So I think that's huge because

what I hear is predictability.

And one of the hardest things after

doing this for ten years is predictability.

And it is an up and down business.

If I'm cold calling or calling people or I'm

really putting all that effort in, then I will

get rewarded by that or my business will grow.

But I don't really have something on the back end.

That's kind of working for me

through these relationships that you've leveraged.

So when you started diving into this, I mean, it's

definitely something we all think about as realtors, right?

We have probate niche, we have

divorce niche, we have seniors niche.

But I think it's more understanding.

How do you go about doing this?

I know you're going to do a master class coming up

here next month, and people, I'll put all the links to

that here and we'll help promote you on that.

But if somebody is listening in

Kansas, where did you start?

How did you get started in this process?

So the biggest thing, or nugget of tactical

advice that I can really tell people is

that realtors always want the end result first.

So we think about the commission, we think about,

wow, you see kind of the bright lights.

And I've never been driven by money.

Yes, we all want money.

And that is not actually my main focus.

My main focus has been value and passion.

And so the first thing I did is meet with my

own mediator through my past divorce, because that's my story.

We all have a story in

whatever niche we're wanting to do.

So if yours is senior living and somebody else

is something else, there's probably something that prompted you

to want to dive deep in that area.

And so if you have that story, you

probably have one person in your world that

fits what you're trying to go after.

The person that owns the senior

living center or works there, whichever.

I met with my mediator and I said, what do you need?

I know I'm different and I know I've

gone through this and I'm passionate about helping

women rebuild and all this stuff, but what

do you actually need from an agent?

I don't want to just ask for

your leads and say, I'm really great.

I'm sure nobody ever calls them. Ask that either. Right.

A bunch of phone calls. Right.

And so I had that personal relationship.

I brought her coffee.

It's very basic of what we need to do, and everyone's

going to, if they know you or have just a little

bit of relationship, even if it's from three people removed, most

likely if you bring them something, even coffee, and say, I

just need ten minutes of your time.

And so she told me, she said, you know what?

Here's how I need you to do a CMA report.

It's very different because I'm

talking about deferred maintenance.

I'm talking about, do they want to

buy out or do they want to.

I'm giving them multiple strategies versus

just asking for the business.

I'm giving the people value, and then I'm

bringing it and tying it back to her

in this partnership that we have.

And so I do things how she actually told me and

instructed me to do them, and that helps her out.

She knows that I can do it.

She knows I can give her.

Going through a divorce, the first thing

you do is disclose your financials.

So somebody has to give them

an evaluation on their home, right?

And whoever it is, mediator or attorney, wants to

make sure that that person knows what the heck

they're doing and knows how to home.

So if I've shown her, because what

she's exactly told me what she needs.

You need to get a home inspection,

you need to do deferred maintenance.

You need all this stuff that she's told me that I need

to do to help her client, then I'm going to do it,

and I'm going to give it to her and present it to

her in the exact way that she told me.

And once you do that a couple of times,

you gain their trust, and then the floodgates just

kind of then that partnership is built.

One thing I really just wanted to point out, too, is

you went to her and didn't ask for the business.

You asked for what she needed, and then

you listened and you delivered on that.

And I think that's a huge thing that

we get stuck in as real estate agents.

Like you said, we get focused on the commission, we get

focused on the end result instead of taking the step back

and saying, okay, wait, what does this person need?

So whether you're going to niche into veterans and maybe you

want to teach them how to do pcs here, how are

they getting stationed here and everything about that, or seniors and

how are they going to transition into assisted living or divorce,

but you really have to come and think about, okay, what

do the people in this industry need from a real estate

agent to be a partner?

And then how can I fulfill that need and

be that partner for them and then take action?

So I'll give you an example.

When I first got in this business ten years ago, I

had a coach and he's like, go call financial planner, CPA.

So I have no idea what I was doing.

I pick up the phone and I'm calling

and I'm like, I'm looking to partner.

One guy said, yes, I actually

got my first listing from him.

We still do business to this day,

but literally that was just happenstance.

Looking back, I would have said what do you need?

And what he needs is to meet more

realtors because he's got passionate about helping us

fix our financial disasters of being a realtor.

And so once after a couple of years,

I did that, then more business came and

that became a much better partnership.

So I think coming with that value or coming

with just the listening, like, I don't know what

you need, but let me try to find out.

Yeah, and I think I do the same thing

when I'm talking to the end user too.

When I say end user, it's the people buyer, the seller.

Yeah, because I don't come in just

assuming I'm going to get that listing.

A lot of times I'm making the reference of

if you decide to interview multiple people, once you

get to the part where you're going to sell.

Here's how I'm different and I kind of tie it back

a little bit, but honestly, I am just providing value.

And of the one attorney gave me twelve

cmas this week, I've been inundated with cmas.

Some are in person, some are virtual.

But when you go through it and you give them

multiple different ways to slice and dice their home.

Hey, if you're wanting to buy out and a strategy could

be, here's how you can invest, here's how you can get

a roommate, put it on Airbnb, look for traveling nurses, there's

multiple strategies that are not about, I just want your business

and it always come back to me.

And so of those twelve, I can pretty much guarantee

four or five are going to be my client.

Just the numbers alone.

If you totally messed it up, you still have.

That's a really amazing.

Just from one person. Right?

So that's huge.

That's like a huge floodgates of people of

being having an opportunity and then taking care

and compassion into the divorce situation where it

may not always be amicable.

How do you deal with that?

I have a couple, they're going through a divorce.

I've bought and sold a couple of houses with them.

They are amicable.

But I definitely notice I have a closer relationship

with the wife, but I really make an effort

to continue my relationship with the husband.

How do you navigate that?

Yeah, it can be challenging, I'll be honest.

So there's no real way to tell

you that I'm perfect at it, obviously.

And I'm going to say this on the

podcast, hopefully this won't go out to everybody.

I'm more partial to the woman because I've been in

her shoes of rebuilding financially and that is my passion.

So I try that we are neutral third parties 1000%.

And I feel like I do a really

good job in letting both parties know that.

But I want to make sure that that

woman, too is able to go through it

on the backside and rebuild her financial future.

And so I'm giving her tips of what to

do after with purchasing and things like that.

But it is challenging.

I will say my mediation leads are

awesome because mediation is usually amicable people.

Right.

They're people that want to work it out. Right.

And I've never had an issue.

Both parties are awesome.

It's almost like a normal transaction that you

would have with both parties being great.

It's the trauma side, which is now I

am getting, like I said, certified, to be

a certified agent in front of the courts.

Once that happens, those are going to be

a little bit more harder to navigate.

And I'll learn that even more next year.

So maybe you'll have me back on and I'll

answer that question fully next year when I'm in. True.

Yeah.

Because that'll be a different experience.

And I do think I love

that you're passionate about women.

I had to rebuild my financial future once

I got it out of my divorce, and

unfortunately, that happens to a lot of women.

So you are a very driven person.

As far as everything you've done, you

already have a bunch on your plate.

But if you were going to say, like, what are a

couple of your really big goals this year to get help.

I've built businesses prior.

I've had a brokerage, I've had assistants.

I've had a team.

And when I went through my divorce, I

actually didn't want any of that anymore.

I closed my brokerage with my partner.

I wanted to only do my deals.

And to be honest, I saw myself getting out of

the business, which I did for a hot minute.

I did investing and focused on my investment portfolio.

But now being back in and kind of getting reenergized, I

do want to build a team in a sustainable way.

I know what I did wrong in the past.

We all kind of learn from our mistakes.

So I want to build it in a way that's sustainable.

We all care about what we're doing, and that's

my focus next year, is to get help in

building this out in the right way.

So let's unpack that a little bit more.

For any team leaders that are listening,

what are some of the things that

you wish you would have done different?

And when you say a sustainable way, what does

that actually mean, I think I didn't know what

the systems were before and I brought people on

before knowing exactly what I wanted them to do.

And I think we all make that mistake

because as realtors we're doing a lot, we're

doing marketing, we're doing systems, and now scaling

myself back to a single agent again.

And I'm pretty systematic.

Anyway, I like building systems.

So I've learned that I needed to do it

myself first, which is what I did this year.

And now I know what needs to be done and created

versus just dumping it on somebody and then being frustrated when

they're not doing it the way you want them to.

But in reality, you weren't a good leader.

I don't think I was a good leader in the past.

So I've been really focusing on that and figuring

out how I can be a better leader and

how I can actually instruct, teach, mentor and know

what to tell them is what I need. Absolutely.

And I think I had a team for

a hot second before I met you.

I had a coach.

He's like, hire the team, buy

leads, everybody will be happy.

And what I realized was not everybody

wants to cold call leads online leads.

That's not how they want to build their business.

And not everybody's going to work as hard as I do.

And not everybody has a different vision for how they're

going to do their real estate business than me.

And I didn't step back and

actually meet them where they were.

I didn't know.

Jen, you want to do open houses, let me

coach you around that, or let me help you

build a sustainable business around what you're passionate about.

Because in a year you're going to get burnt out doing

the thing you hate doing and then you're not going to

do anything and then everybody's going to be frustrated.

Right.

So I think that that's a huge thing.

And also, I love what you said is like

doing it yourself and building that up yourself so

that you can see, like, okay, that works.

It doesn't work.

Now it becomes a duplicatable system, right?

And again, that goes back into leveraging, it goes

back into, how do I leverage my time?

Because I've already created the system and now I can duplicate

it for every other agent or show them how to do

this and then we can all work together for a common.

And so last year I became success coach certified, too.

That's success magazine, we have that at.

And when I went through that program, the best thing that

it did for me is I knew this about myself, but

it really challenged me to go deep on this is what

success means to you and most coaches in our industry.

I've done the Tom Ferry organization.

I've done the large coaching programs they do.

They say exactly what you said, build the team.

And they don't really go through the

why process and really what you want.

And the reality is, I'm not the

agent that wants to do 100 deals.

When I say sustainable business, I'm

okay doing 20 to 25 sustainable.

I have two lead sources.

I know they're coming each year.

That is my vision of success.

And if I get more leads, those

other agents will take on certain parts.

But I am not driven, again, by one

thing we do wrong as realtors is how

many transactions have you had this year?

What volume are you doing?

And that is so far beyond what I ever want to say.

I don't care what anyone else is doing.

I want to be under the radar.

I want to do my thing, do it well, enjoy what

I'm doing, love the people that I do business with.

And everyone's version of success is different.

So if an agent comes to me and they say, I

really just want a supplemental, I need the leads, but I

really only want to do ten deals this year. Great.

That's amazing.

Why is that a wrong thing in our industry?

It's a wrong thing.

Somebody says, I only want to do five deals a year.

That's awesome.

That works for you.

And I love that you're saying that, because I also

think something that happens in our industry is we start

looking around at other people and we're like, oh.

And then we start flaunting success, or that agent

is huge and that may work for them.

And I got very caught up into that, like,

oh, I'm a big deal or whatever, and you

start competing within your brokerage or within the industry

or within your city, and what happens is you

lose what's actually important to you.

I lost my work life balance.

I lost time with my family.

I just lost a lot of things

that were not important to me.

What's important to me is to make a certain amount

of money so that I can have a life that

I love to live but also have time to be

with my family and hike, travel and do things.

And some people are driven.

They want to make that 100 deals a

year and God bless them, go for it.

That's totally possible in our business.

But I love this.

And I think taking that time to define success and what

that means to you, because it's not just that number.

I love that you said that.

I think that's absolutely phenomenal.

I was caught up in it too, just like you.

I was the girl running everyone's production numbers.

When the MLS came out with that and you could see

what people are doing, I was like, this is great.

I'm going to see what everyone else is not.

I think divorce changed me and I was

so unhappy in my personal life that it

was all about the external stuff and success.

And that's just the last five years

have been unraveling that and realizing that

that does not mean anything to me. Yeah.

And I think that's also going in deeper. Right.

Because oftentimes women especially, we have this background story

of I'm not enough, I'm not worthy enough.

And it's pretty easy to then supplement that back

in with external things like our job or work

or being successful or making a lot of money

in these couple of things, right?

So I really think that I just

commend you for diving into that.

And I love that you are able now to

help other people go through that work for themselves,

to define what success means to them. Right?

That's amazing.

We have just a few more minutes, so I'm

going to ask just a few more questions.

Everyone has doubts and this

job because we are entrepreneurs.

I always like to ask everybody on the

podcast, when you have your doubts and your

fears, how do you overcome them?

What are some ways you push past those boundaries?

Gosh, impostor syndrome is real, right? We all feel it.

That word has been like a buzword

in the last couple of years.

I'm no different.

I've seen a pattern in my life when I

have redirected, oh, this doesn't feel good anymore.

Or you have an idea and you stop it and you redirect.

And now I know, getting older, whether it's age

or life change or whatever, that is all fear.

So now when I feel that and I feel either

the impostor syndrome or the fear, I just honestly, and

it's just willpower, just forcing myself to move forward and

realizing that I can either stay stuck.

It's like that whole evolution of change.

And I don't know if you've ever heard of

the twelve week year, but the twelve week year

is a really good circle of change.

And basically there's five phases.

And most people get stuck in phase two

and phase three because you feel uncomfortable.

And he says it's uninformed positivity.

It's like you want to be positive

and you want to do it.

But then all of a sudden, all the information comes

to you as far as how much it's going to

take or work to do what you want to do.

And the positivity goes down and it just keeps going

down and you can't get out of it and realize

that you just need to cross to the other side.

It's as simple just moving through

and crossing to the other side.

And who cares if it doesn't work?

And I think age maybe has taught me that.

Who honestly gives a crap if it doesn't work?

I know I'm a good person and

I'm doing good, and I'm just trying.

And if I fail, it's okay.

It's really okay. Yeah.

And I think, too, that's where I'm

doing a bunch of different things.

I'm really getting my membership site together

and I'm super uncomfortable right now.

And there are some moments where I wake

up and I think, I can't do this.

This is too much.

And then I think, well, if I

don't try it, what am I losing? Right?

But I can see where it's easy to get stuck

and be like, oh my God, it's too much.

I don't want to do it.

I'm too uncomfortable.

And then we never move forward.

So what I'm hearing you say is, just

move forward, take those steps, keep going.

Is that right?

Yeah, absolutely.

Just through.

If you talk to anyone or read all

these, I'm like a self help jumpy.

You're speaking my language like, I have

every book on earth, I feel like.

But they all say the same thing.

We keep reading them, but they all say the same thing.

They were in the same spot as all of us at one point.

Yeah.

I'm a certified NLP coach, and NLP

tells us that success leaves clues.

And the biggest thing we can see is if

somebody else, you've seen somebody else anywhere, do something

you want to do, it is possible.

So then you can reframe your thought process and your

limiting beliefs around the fact that that is possible.

I can do this.

I can do know and have a good, comfortable life.

Because now I'm listening to Jennifer on

this podcast, and that is possible.

Now, what do I need to do?

What are the steps I need to take?

Which would be to come to your masterclass?

So let's end with that.

Tell us a little bit about this master class.

So this was really driven by agents asking me again.

I rebuilt my business just this year, and now

I have listings and whole trajectory for 2024.

So agents were asking me what I was doing.

So it's going to be in January.

So if you go to divorcenichmastery.com, that

will lead you to the landing page.

And if you're going to it right now, don't go

to it because I'm forwarding it right after this call.

Okay, great.

It's divorcednichmastery.com and I'm going

to teach a master class.

So I'm just going to share how I got into it.

Obviously, it's not like I've been

into it for 1415 years.

So that's what I'm I've been in the business for

20 years, but this niche has only been this year.

So I want to show people that it can be done

and that to me, it is a recession proof niche.

And I'm also going to go

over five other recession proof niches.

And we talked about one of them,

which was senior living, but there's five

different ones that I've kind of identified.

And you can build out a niche.

Exactly what I'm doing in divorce in those other five.

It's like duplicatable because seniors is one

thing that I'm very passionate about.

Something, a niche I'm building out this year.

So it is something that you could take and duplicate.

Is that what hearing? Perfect. Perfect.

Well, you will see me in that class.

I'm excited.

Jen, thank you so much for being here.

I will make sure all of the information

to find Jennifer is in the show notes.

Please reach out to her if you have any questions.

She is a fantastic person with a ton of knowledge.

Thank you so much for being here.

Yeah, that was fun.

Thanks, Joseph. You're welcome. Welcome.

Okay, so I'm going to hang up

and I'm going to call you.

Sounds good.

Bye.